Curse

Shwitz · Jul 20, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I like Concussion Shot's whole "causes caster to be dazed" condition, but is the 25 energy cost, even with Expertise bringing it down to 12 or so, worth it? It's certainly not something that can be spammed... what other bow shots combo well with it?

ComMan · Jul 20, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I had great success using it against Eles in the Random arena, but nowhere else.

Shwitz · Jul 20, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Is it only useful in random PvP? No one has tried using it in the Tombs or even the Team Arena?

ComMan · Jul 20, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shwitz

Is it only useful in random PvP? No one has tried using it in the Tombs or even the Team Arena?

Tombs Teams tend to have 3+ monks, all with Mend Ailment (which Daze is) and they also tend to use low-casting time spells to avoid interrupts. It's not as useful. I suposse there are instances where it would work, but the 25 mana and effective loss of a skill slot just isn't worth it.

Shwitz · Jul 20, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

By that line of thinking, conditions in general probably aren't a good idea. Maybe I should rethink my reliance on Poison Arrow and Hunter's Shot...

JasonJLore · Jul 20, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

By that line of thinking, conditions in general probably aren't a good idea. Maybe I should rethink my reliance on Poison Arrow and Hunter's Shot...

in tombs i would agree that conditions are ineffective but in the arenas it's a different story. i've found poison arrow 2 b very effective - unless the team has more than 1 monk which most dont. assuming ur attributes r well spent, poison arrow combined with WS skills are devastating. 1 sec recharge, 5 cost, 15 sec duration. . . . talk about spamming, u almost cant go wrong.

Mercury Angel · Jul 20, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

You mean the line of thinking that says if a very common removal method that is quick to cast, recharge, and costs much less than the condition/hex you inflict on them, then it's not worth it?

Successfully interrupting a spell and inflicting the dazed condition is difficult- Removing it is simple.

Poison and bleeding on the other hand are far easier, and cheaper, to inflict.

If you're bent on using it, Arcane Conundrum from yourself or an ally helps significantly to get it off, along with Tiger's Fury and Favourable Winds to up your attack rate and arrow speed.

Rajamic · Jul 20, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

It just isn't worth it against 8-man teams. You'll have better luck with sustained interrupts using Incendiary Arrows or Choking Gas, since preps can't be removed.

ComMan · Jul 20, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shwitz

By that line of thinking, conditions in general probably aren't a good idea. Maybe I should rethink my reliance on Poison Arrow and Hunter's Shot...

Apply Poison is probably better than Poison Arrow for Tombs because you can spread it to every memeber of the opposing team very easily. Mend Ailment costs 5 mana every time they cast it. Personally, when I play a monk I let the degen run it's course and the Word of Healing or Heal Other, but that's risky and a lot of monks don't play that way.

As someone already said, Concussion Shot is hard to use, Poison Arrow is easy.

And yeah, in Arenas you can count on the other guy not having condition/hex removal and still get by. Many monks and Wamos depend on the other team not having enchantment removal, and they dominate the random arenas.

Shwitz · Jul 20, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

That is true... Poison Arrow and Hunter's Shot are easier to spam than Concussion. I guess trying to overload the monks with conditions and make them concentrate on removing them instead of healing or protecting would be a decent strategy... I'm not bent on using Concussion Shot, I was just wondering if anyone had found success using it in higher level PvP areas. I guess most pure ranger interrupter builds don't use it.

Neo-LD · Jul 20, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Actually, the way to beat mend ailment is not to stop using conditions. It is to use only 1 condition. Have 1 ranger on your team use poison arrow or apply poison and go for the entire team. NO ONE ELSE ON THE TEAM BRING ANY CONDITIONS. Now, the poison on the enemy team will equate to 64 dps divided among 8 targets not including damge from your arrows.

-4 regen = 8 HP/sec * 8 people = 64 dps

On its own th poison cannot kill, but it adds up in the long run: the monks have to heal it sometime. It forces the enemy monks to heal more, running them out of energy faster. Every ~12 seconds the enemy team's monks will have to heal the equivielent of 8 extra orisons. Combine with Debilitating Shot for some gg action. (close to 800 hp)

Now the secret is to only use the one condition. Mend Ailment is used 10x as often as mend condition because it is a self-heal as well; but it relies on there to be plenty of conditions stacked on top of each other to have effective healing power. If there is only the poison, mend ailment may remove the poison but will only heal with its divine favor. A waste of 5 energy.

Mend Condition will beat this, if anyone brought it. However, since PA or AP only takes up one spot in your bar, you should still have other tricks up your sleeve that can make you effecvtive in some other manner.

firstwave · Jul 21, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Yes I agree. In random or 4v4, degen and condition are great. In Tomb or GvG though, kindle arrow is better. Conditions can be removed so easily when there are 3 or 4 monks. However, +20 fire damage is a different story. Imagine 3 rangers doing +20 per shot and use dual shot on the same target. It would be pretty strong.

Yesterday, I was in Tomb and we lost to a korean team. They had 4 monks, 3 rangers and a necro. It was King of the Hill and they are really good. Their rangers spammed spirits and used explosive shots. Explosive shot looks weak, but it really adds up when there are 3 peoeple using it. 15 x 3 = 45 damage in a small AOE radius is devastating.

I really like explosive arrow or kindle arrow because the added damage is really effective. However, in random, poison works very well.

Arcador · Jul 23, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

One way to use it but often difficult - place concusion with some condition preparation or after the concussion place poison arrow shot - the monks will remove it 1 by 1, thus the next 2-3 arrows will interupt.

The good position of the daze is that ANYone can take advantage of it - like you cast it - others strike and interupt. It can be removed easily but keep in mind not all teams got 3+ monks and often they cant remove conditions from 7 people.

I guess reduced mana cost might be usefull - like 15 mana not 25...

Vermilion Okeanos · Jul 23, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

and other thing is that most monk spell in tomb are pretty fast... so your chance of catching them are slim to none at long range... it is a good idea to grab a short bow with attack speed boost, then concussion then right after spam poison... but really... just use arcane condrum or migarine and spam blanket hex... I wonder if the 2 stack thou, never really test it out, but considering that so many thing in this game have a limit to the debuff... i guess not.

Arcador · Jul 24, 2005, 06:56 AM // 06:56

With Nature's renewall spirit their mend XXX spells will be casted for 3/2 casting time - thus the condition spree may begin

Also with very good team coordination you can concuss the monks (after several seconds in the fray they will cast 90% of the time) thus almost disabling the team's healing...

Anyway I still think this shot needs reduced mana cost.

Shwitz · Jul 24, 2005, 07:06 AM // 07:06

I agree. The 25 energy cost is what keeps me from even considering putting this skill on my skill bar. Even with expertise reducing it to 12 or so for me, that's nearly half of my available energy for an arrow that is often going to miss its intended purpose. Unless I can catch someone on a res spell or a long cast spell, like a spirit or firestorm or the like, I feel like getting a concussion shot in effectively would be hard to do since it can't be used very much at all, not much margin for error.

Rajamic · Jul 24, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcador

With Nature's renewall spirit their mend XXX spells will be casted for 3/2 casting time - thus the condition spree may begin

WHy would the mend spells be lengthened by Nature's Renewal? It only affects the casting of Enchantments and Hexes. The Mend spells are neither.

entropy · Jul 24, 2005, 08:08 AM // 08:08

actually i get great success with concussion shot in arean. It works and even with monks if i use apply poison i can stack them. Plus its really really quick and if its a 2 sec cast spell or more i can definetly get it. For 1 sec or less its more of a guess such as if the monks health is a bit low.

Arcador · Jul 24, 2005, 09:23 AM // 09:23

They can make it like "ready action" drom the pnp rpg but it will get imba:
For the next 15 secs if enemy cast a spell you shot it with the shot... but it will be very not specific for this game.

Rajamic, my bad